Episode Transcript
Kyle James (00:00.824)
Hey, welcome to the AI Cronklos podcast. I'm your host, Kyle James. And today we'll be discussing how a company called Lead Podcasting is using AI inside of their own business. And we'll share the exact steps that you can take in order to implement AI for yourself. Now, before we talk more about that, listen closely. Are you looking to implement AI inside of your own company? Or maybe just struggling to get your AI to stop hallucinating? Speak to GPT Trainer. GPT Trainer literally builds out and manages your AI for you.
eliminating hallucinations for good. Go to gpt-trainer.com. I promise you, it'll be the biggest time-saving decision that you've made all year. Trying to set up AI on your own is like trying to build a house from scratch. Sure, you could do it, but the time of frustration is going to take you to get it finished. It may not be worth it. It's a thousand times faster and safer to hire professionals. Scheduled consultation today. Once again, that's gpt-trainer.
Say hi with me on the show, Amanda Cupido, who is an award-winning podcast producer, TEDx speaker, college professor, and entrepreneur. Amanda is the founder of Lead Podcasting and the author of Amazon's bestselling books, Let's Talk Podcasting and Let's Talk Podcasting for Kids. Really excited to have her on the show today. Hey, Amanda, welcome in. How are you doing?
Amanda Cupido (01:25.591)
I'm doing well, thanks so much for having me, Kyle.
Kyle James (01:28.428)
Yeah, for sure. For sure. So give us some context. You are the queen of podcasting right now. And I'm so excited to have you on the show here. Give us some background because I know you have lot of like you've worked in different industries. You're on the news channel for a little bit. How did Leap Podcasting come to be and what's that origin story that's worth sharing?
Amanda Cupido (01:44.256)
Yeah, well, I started with a background in journalism and specifically in radio. So I've always had a love for audio storytelling. It's so nice to see how podcasting is booming right now. I made my first podcast in 2010, so long before they were as popular as they are today. But I was spent a lot of my career in radio. Initially, I moved to doing some communications work within the nonprofit sector and with corporate clients, worked in some agencies doing video production.
but wrote my book via first edition of it in 2018. And so that was a really great time to be releasing a book. Podcasting was on the up and up. And two years later, I launched my company Lead Podcasting. So if you're doing the math, that was in the pandemic, which was a time when I think a lot of people took stock of what they were up to and thought, you know, is this the time to maybe switch directions? And I had always been thinking about making a podcast company. I was always a little nervous to take the plunge.
But I pulled the trigger and in July of 2020, I started marketing myself as a full-time podcast producer. By September, I had to incorporate a business and six months from then, I hired my first full-time employee. So it was a fast and furious growth spurt and I learned a lot along the way. I'm still learning. And so now we're into our sixth year of business, which is really exciting and we've been growing year over year ever since.
Kyle James (03:10.126)
Yeah. So, so take me back, like you, like 2010, they kind of peeked into first podcasts and then like, obviously like almost a decade goes by and then you finally launched the company. Like when you had that first client, like what, what exactly were you like, were you just helping them set up a podcast or was it like, strategy wise or like, was it like, I mean, what, what was the main thing that kind of brought in that first client when you first started off?
Amanda Cupido (03:33.42)
Well, the very first show in 2010 was actually part of an internship I was doing with a magazine, a digital magazine, and they were looking for innovative ideas. The idea of a podcast was thrown around and I became the host. So this was actually for free and I did it for them. This was, you know, real, if you dig hard into the internet, you could find it. It's still out there, which is, I'm not gonna tell you the name though, cause it is, it was my very first one. But my first client was,
Kyle James (03:54.506)
Hahaha.
Amanda Cupido (04:01.929)
A couple years later, I kind of got two around the same time. One was a woman who was wanting to, she was a thought leader in her own right coming about to retire and wanting to really share her knowledge. And so I was creating a show for her. I didn't even call myself a podcast producer at that time. I just called myself a media coordinator and I had gotten connected to her through some mutual connections. And then the next one was actually an organization, a summer camp for kids that was looking to build out podcasts about all of the impact stories.
from their campers and beyond. And so I was actually in-house going in. They had built a studio, was very innovative of them at the time. And so these were my two initial clients that I started seeing similarities of what support they needed, the gaps, and where my skillset could come in with a background in radio, but also at strategic lens of communications. And so that's how I started slowly building my roster with freelance gigs on the side, mostly from word of mouth referral.
and I didn't actively promote that I was doing this. And it was nice to make a bit of extra money. But yeah, it took a decade before I pulled the trigger. I mean, so many entrepreneurs, I think, will feel nervous jumping in full-fledged, giving up the full-time job to do this. And even with the book out, I was still nervous only because, especially in that time, people were still asking, what is a podcast? It's very hard to sell something if people don't know even the language you're using.
Kyle James (05:19.618)
Hmm
Amanda Cupido (05:23.607)
And so I rated for the market to be really ripe, especially where I'm based, which is in Toronto, Canada. And in 2020, I felt like this is the time we saw a huge uptick in podcasts at the start of the pandemic, people feeling less lonely by listening to them. so anyway, that's what led to me finally doing it.
Kyle James (05:39.5)
Yeah, yeah, that's so cool. So so the first like few of them is almost like they were saying we want we want you to be the the host like initially like and then. Hmm, OK.
Amanda Cupido (05:47.608)
Well, they were producing, I was producing, they were hosting. So I was like lining up the guests, I was writing scripts, I was doing the recording, I was doing the editing, and then I was helping them get it online and distribute it on the podcast players.
Kyle James (05:59.638)
Okay. And then, and then once you have like, so you're building out the content really for them in a sense, and then just kind of guiding them, walking them through. And then once they get to that point of like, okay, I'm comfortable. Then I guess you kind of step away and then go to the next client in that regard, or is that like, just depends, I imagine.
Amanda Cupido (06:13.239)
was with them the whole time. usually I would give host coaching to them so they felt confident behind the mic, because I had done a lot of on-air work and radio. So from the beginning, I was doing that on-air support, then I was doing content creation, and that was a good lens I brought because I'd been a producer. so usually these clients would want to keep me on, and that's how it started growing and I needed more people because I only had so much time. And I would say that the services that we now offer have broadened even further.
but I was really in that producer role and supporting them and making them feel like they had someone shoulder to shoulder with them in the trenches as they were going down this new path of a new medium.
Kyle James (06:53.25)
Yeah. Yeah. said my first, like, you know, we launched our podcast a couple of months back and like my first one, I was like shaking in my boots. Like, I don't know what I'm, I got a script. I'm like, I don't know I'm doing it right. But you mentioned something you said, you said host coaching. Like, I think that like kind of gives me relief. Like, man, like having someone like walk me through, like what, why host coaching and like, what do you find most, most like initial new hosts or podcast hosts struggle with maybe that first couple of steps.
Amanda Cupido (06:59.787)
Hehehehe. Hehehehe.
Amanda Cupido (07:21.183)
Yeah, I think part of it is just knowing how to find their own voice and feel confident with their own voice. So many people are critical of their voice. Also giving them some key tactics for how to conduct an interview and specific to podcasting. know, even if you listen to radio, radio, there are specific tactics you have to know how to throw to a commercial break. Whereas in podcasting, that's not as critical. You can do that later or just have it inserted later. So, and
it being live versus not live, what areas can you lean into so that you have more flexibility as a host and even just language and words. So like one example that I give in my host coaching is be confident in jumping directions and not feeling like you have to come up with a witty segue, right? And so the power of taking a beat and saying something like switching gears and then going into a new line of questioning, a tactic like that can be really valuable where
People sometimes get nervous trying to think of a segue to where they want the conversation to go and empowering them to say, you know what, you don't have to come up with a witty joke and a pun. You you can just take the beat and you can say a simple thing where switching gears makes sense for me. It's natural to my voice, but finding an equivalent phrase that allows you to just go in a completely different direction really quickly. So something like that, equipping them with tactics and tools like this.
to make them feel really confident no matter what situation arises in an interview.
Kyle James (08:46.606)
Yeah, that's so cool. I literally pictured someone on a horse. I just knocked you off the horse, get back on, here we go. Switching gears, topic change, unrelated. Just get ready for the whiplash because here it comes. But it's cool because when you do that in a podcast, feel like for some listeners, if they're listening in, like, I know where this is going versus all of sudden they hear topic change or switching gears. Okay, cool. I'm ready to go to the next gear. I'm kind of past that previous subject conversation. Let's go to the next phase, next chapter.
Amanda Cupido (08:54.143)
Yeah!
Amanda Cupido (09:10.879)
Yeah. Yeah, it definitely catches people's ear. Yeah, you're like, then what where could this be going? Right. You're like, it's it's also a hook for the audience. Totally.
Kyle James (09:16.302)
Yeah
Yeah, yeah. So everyone who's listening, you have no idea what's happening next to you. they're probably, I'm sure they could probably guess it'll listen to the other ones, but okay. So Amanda switching gears here, like you're, you're using AI over, I mean, obviously over at lead podcasting, like what, why did you decide to start implementing AI in the first place and what specific challenges were you trying to solve with it?
Amanda Cupido (09:29.857)
Nice.
Amanda Cupido (09:43.212)
Well, I love technology and experimenting and innovating. so I was one of the first in all my radio stations to be leading into social media. And so that was, you know, a tech shift that I felt was big for traditional media outlets, for sure. So when when all of these AI tools started coming up, my instinct is to just start playing with it and seeing how could how could this help with our workflows? How could this be incorporated? If at all, like I wasn't going in trying to figure out.
that I must figure out a way to incorporate it, I just really went in with an open, curious mind, which I encourage people to do. I think that that curious mindset is really unique to humanity. And we have to lean into our traits in this world of tech, too. And so just going in open and willing to see if things made sense. initially, it was just simple things that lots of people in audio were using, automatic transcription. These things were simple.
People didn't even reference it as AI, but it was, right? Generated transcripts, which we would always look over. But as technology evolved, we of course started leaning into different apps. So one of the first ones I implemented widely within my production company was Adobe Enhance, which helps with audio restoration. This would be restoration that would take hours for an audio engineer to complete or maybe not even be able to complete at all. And so we were able to really help bring up the quality in some recordings.
with a click of a button, which was incredible. And funnily enough, Lead Podcasting actually submitted a lot of podcasts to Adobe for them to develop that audio enhanced feature. at the beginning, very early on, this was probably in like 2000 and I want to say maybe 21, like so early into my business, they were needing shows that had done more than 10 episodes. And it's surprising how many podcasts don't make it to 10 episodes. And so they put this massive call out.
Kyle James (11:20.13)
Wow.
Amanda Cupido (11:40.13)
to say if you have more than 10 episodes of the same show, and I guess they were just looking for a similar voice and recording style, we wanna run these AI enhancers on it to see how we can make the audio sound better. And so we submitted some of our shows for that development. So anyway, that's exciting. So I already felt part of it and we definitely will use that. Of course, we're taking an ear to it and sometimes it doesn't always work the way we want it, but we're definitely equipping all of our editors to use that. We then evolved to...
doing different translations and using 11 labs. And so a lot of our clients are making bilingual or trilingual shows to reach global audiences. And so recently we had a client who was looking to do their show in English and then have it adapted into Spanish and French. And this was for an international nonprofit organization that was doing an internal podcast. So to help with employee engagement and they really wanted.
Kyle James (12:13.902)
Hmm.
Amanda Cupido (12:36.905)
employees to engage with the podcast in their native language. And so what we did at first was dub with actors and translate manually. took a lot of time. But then we eventually moved to having it hybrid approach. So we would swap out the host with a native language speaking host. And then we would then run the guest voice through 11 labs, which would have them in their voice speaking a different language. And so.
Kyle James (13:03.629)
Hmm.
Amanda Cupido (13:04.341)
There was lots of human oversight of that, but that was our first way of using generative voice within a podcast at that extent. We also did little AI voice generations around like blips using Descript. has within Descript, there's its own voice generation AI technology.
And then the most recent AI that we've been using is the Adobe Firefly's sound effects generator, which is fairly new and it's been incredible. You could just type in anything you need, fingers on a keyboard and it will generate that sound. Whereas before we would either be going to audio banks or literally trying to record ourselves doing these sorts of sound effects. And so that's been one that our management team right now is just experimenting with. We haven't rolled out to the whole team yet, but there's a good overview of what we're using at the moment.
Kyle James (13:44.258)
Hmm.
Kyle James (13:54.092)
Yeah. So that's so cool. So you said something like with the translation part, because I think there's a lot of, I know a lot of companies, so can like, you know, using the podcast and they want to reach maybe somewhere outside of their country of origin and they want to go bilingual. Like, are you, so in this case they can technically do it within the podcast. If they, in this case you're saying like 11 labs translation, but like, is it a new podcast host for a different language? And then it's just translating the guests content or like, how does that.
Like maybe paint that picture for me a little bit there. I'm curious.
Amanda Cupido (14:23.543)
Yes, sorry, no, I threw a lot at you there and that's like, and from a production perspective, yes, let's break it down. So we took the unique approach of having a human host and an AI generated guest voice in these adapted translated versions. But it doesn't have to be that way. You could upload your podcast episode to 11 Labs and it will translate and then voice generate all the voices that they hear.
Kyle James (14:28.212)
Hahaha
Amanda Cupido (14:53.143)
and you could then manipulate that and go back and regenerate if you want it to sound a little bit different, or you could go in and manipulate the translations if they didn't get the words right. So it's nice that you can have so many touch points to adjust how it's using it. And also now they've just rolled out the ability to like even turn up and turn down certain emotions and expressions and delivery.
which is, you so that that level of human touch point that you could have mixed with the technology is, is great. I think that's what allows it to be so good. But in our case, clients are a little bit nervous. I think socially to have voice generated, fully voice generated podcasts are not 100 % acceptable. We are seeing people push the limits like Stephen Bartlett with his 100 CEOs series spin off. It's him as complete AI voice.
which he's leaned into and said, there's lots of podcasts right now. There's also one out of the UK called Virtually Parkinson. It's a journalist that has passed and he is, they've taken all of his voice and then now made him the host. Yep. And his son is, you know, giving his blessing and overseeing that production process. So there's a lot of people in the podcast space that are like pushing the boundaries, but also getting a lot of backlash. And I think socially, especially in English speaking markets, we're just not really ready for that. It's, there's lots of people who have concerns with this.
Kyle James (15:57.87)
Wow.
Amanda Cupido (16:15.701)
So as, and I respect that it takes time to wrap your head around all of this. So one of our ways to kind of ease into this and especially ease into it for our client was to say, we're going to do the hybrid approach. It's not fully AI voice. The human will still be the host, but we want to honor that voice of a guest instead of trying to cast someone who was the same age and the same sound and still not really getting it right. How neat would it be to actually hear that person speaking in a language other than their own?
with their own voice. And so of course we got permissions from those people. They sign off, we load their voice up and then we're able to tweak it so that it really honors the original interview. But we have that human host who's popping in and bridging the gaps with her own scripting and narration.
Kyle James (16:45.326)
Mmm
Kyle James (17:00.878)
Okay, so what makes it a hybrid is the translation from one, let's say English to a Spanish. Like if I'm the guest on the show, I would translate your English to Spanish. That's what makes it a hybrid or like what exactly makes it a hybrid?
Amanda Cupido (17:16.073)
Yeah, so that when you're listening to the podcast in the end, you're hearing a human voice and that is a native language speaker of whatever, let's say Spanish, so we have a Spanish speaking host, she introduced herself, it's her. But then when the guest voice comes in, it's an AI generated voice.
Kyle James (17:35.598)
but the original guess was English, but they've agreed to it.
Amanda Cupido (17:38.759)
English. So the original was an English host, English guest. Then we've swapped at the host with a different native language speaker host, but then the guest is completely AI generated based off of the English guest.
Kyle James (17:53.218)
And it's the same answers or different answers that's coming.
Amanda Cupido (17:56.76)
Same answers, that's the thing, because we want to really honor what their answers were, but the host will be a little different. Obviously the host has to be herself. So if the original host talked about her own experience in something, the new host would just put her own flair to it. So she's just like taking it, she's still honoring what the question was, but she might have a different transition or a different joke, still her as a human, but then yes, it's an automatically generated answer that's honoring the original answer.
Kyle James (17:58.478)
okay.
Kyle James (18:16.257)
Makes sense.
Amanda Cupido (18:25.32)
but with an AI generated voice.
Kyle James (18:27.054)
That makes sense. Cause it has to be like, mean, the biggest thing is like when the host is on board, like the Spanish speaking, French speaking English, whatever the language is, like that's one thing. That's not too big of a barrier, but it's that next one, which is like the guest. Like the guest has to be okay with, it has to be the same answer. Otherwise you're putting words in their mouth and they can be like, oh, well, you said this on, that can get a little messy.
Amanda Cupido (18:41.931)
Definitely. Yeah.
Amanda Cupido (18:47.121)
Exactly. Yes. And that's what we say in our sign off is that we're not adding in extra things. We are simply taking what you already said and just making your voice say it in a different language. Where, and I guess that's the differentiating factor between us and some of these other podcasts that are coming out. That's full fledged AI generated voice. They really do have a mind of their own, whereas we're really honoring the original human behind it.
Kyle James (19:09.326)
Yeah, that's cool. That's like respectable way. I think like, especially like in this like this, this testing phase to like you don't want to get have a little bit of a margin here. You don't overstep it because then they could go wrong. But then also you do want to have the impact and use AI to some degree. So you're staying ahead of the game. You know what mean? So OK, so what like what types of results have you been seeing so far? Maybe maybe both like I mean, I know you kind of touch base on this. So feel free like elaborate more like either internally.
Amanda Cupido (19:16.214)
Yes.
Amanda Cupido (19:25.802)
Exactly.
Kyle James (19:38.178)
But maybe even externally with some of your clients, when they're using, they know you're using AI and they're cool with it, what are you even saying that's something, maybe that's worth highlighting.
Amanda Cupido (19:46.646)
Yeah, think, well, for sure, it's been a cost savings for the client. So they're happy with that instead of having to, right? Instead of having to hire. And actually was at the point where the client was unsure if they were even going to continue with the translated versions because it was very pricey. We were hiring actors and casting them and there was so many people involved. And timelines, of course, also were really, it was much longer than what we're doing now, which is a click of a button.
Kyle James (19:51.854)
They love that.
Amanda Cupido (20:13.879)
So not only from time and cost effectiveness from a client side, even from my own team, the project manager who was previously casting everyone is now just overseeing the AI generation. So they're still doing work, but in a different way. And for them, it's a bit easier to execute because they're just controlling the workflow themselves and not having to like go pound the pavement and find a bunch of voice actors for every episode.
Kyle James (20:39.405)
Yeah.
Amanda Cupido (20:41.419)
time saving from their end and then that allowed for that podcast to get renewed in the three languages in the case of the example I was giving. So that's a great win. So time and money from both sides, great. Of course my team is very interested to experiment with this kind of technology too so I think there was like an element of exploration and fun that came with.
with this and I appreciate you saying that it was respectable the way we approached it. Exactly, we're trying to push the boundaries, but being mindful of all the risks and elements that come with it. And so I think that was really fun. And then another personal example I can give is a podcast that I do as a hobby with my husband. It's called How to Fall Asleep Fast. And he composes music and I do a one minute meditation. And we've put that out in the world. It's done very well.
but my husband was born in the Ukraine and his mother tongue is Russian. And so I don't speak Russian, but how neat would it be to hear your wife speak your first language? And so I actually put my own voice through 11 Labs and have the entire podcast, How to Fall Sleep Fast, now done in Russian. And my meditation is my voice in Russian. And so that's been a really neat, and that's just been a neat experience.
creative experiment for us and a cool bonding experience. Like you should have seen his face when he heard my voice come out speaking Russian. It was just like mind blowing. And I feel like I got a good nod from from my mother-in-law and father-in-law as well. They just loved it. So you know, there's just these really beautiful moments. Yeah, that have come from it.
Kyle James (22:19.598)
It's crazy. I love it
Yeah, that's so cool. Now you got me wanting to go test out 11 Labs right now and just throw my voice and get some span. That's it. Now we're starting a Spanish and French, Ukraine, Russian, whatever you want. I don't care. We're doing it all. We're doing it all. Listen, everybody. Oh, it's funny. Oh, that's so cool. So as we started kind of wrapping up the conversation, where can people go? Well, let me say this.
Amanda Cupido (22:30.515)
Yeah!
Amanda Cupido (22:44.215)
Yeah
Kyle James (22:54.03)
just trying to say it in the best way possible. Obviously, you're doing so much in the AI space. Where do you see maybe AI playing the biggest role in your operations next, as you continue to explore it and test it? And where do you see it maybe next, like, a couple months, a couple years? That's worth noting.
Amanda Cupido (23:14.007)
I think from the podcast industry in general, from a translation perspective, it's only a matter of time before this gets integrated into the back ends of podcast hosting sites. So I would predict that you will soon not have to go to like 11 labs or an equivalent is just going to be integrated into your backend of Buzzsprout or Lipsyn or wherever you're uploading your podcast. And you can literally click a button and go, I want it in Japanese and Italian and right. And you're going to go through the list and you could just, just like right now.
for distribution to different podcast players, you're also gonna be able to click into different languages. So I foresee that being the future and it might not be perfect at first, but it's gonna be pretty good and only get better. So that's a no-brainer and that's actually a really exciting part of the industry. I think it's gonna really help with making shows more globalized. It is already a global medium, but English language.
listeners are so limited. There's amazing Spanish podcasts that we just don't understand and we'll soon be able to have access to them and vice versa. So I foresee that happening in the backend. I would imagine in, I would guess five years. I don't know, I'm throwing out a number, but like I think I could see it being in the pretty near future. From my operations perspective, I do see the simple kind of edits that we do. We do some, what we call a cleanup edit. This is where we're going in. We might just take out a flub.
We put in some theme music on each end and we might level the audio so the guests are similar in sound, mix it and export. That kind of edit is soon, like, that can be done through AI soon. I think we're getting there and really quickly those really simple turnaround edits are gonna be able to just be like, you know, take out pauses, take out flubs, add in theme music, fade in, fade out, you put the specs and you load it up. So what I think will ultimately happen is,
Kyle James (25:01.198)
Mmm.
Amanda Cupido (25:05.089)
people who are not editors are gonna be able to have pretty good podcasts, which is great. It's gonna make the medium even more accessible. And where the future future future, I think is like even more in-depth editing where you could say, I want my podcast to sound like a mix of this American life and serial and make, and you know, you can actually use reference points and then they can, it'll be able to understand what kind of sound design went into that, what kind of.
And maybe with some AI voice too, you're gonna be able to like plug in specs and have something created based on other things that have already been created. Now, how we honor those creators, that's a whole other conversation, but I do foresee that editing capability being able to come to life within my working years for sure.
Kyle James (25:55.63)
Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I just like I think it's like the creative side is really just going to go go from 100 miles an hour to 1000 because it's going to be like a almost like a Spotify or Apple music of all the different types of music and all the different types of noises and different like intros and like it's just really whatever you want. It's like a full creative playground plate, you know sandbox that you're running with here, which is I mean, let's see how it will see how it goes in the next couple of years. And as you wrap up Amanda like working people go to learn a little bit more about you and then maybe a little bit more about
podcast that you recommend them checking out.
Amanda Cupido (26:28.279)
For sure, well, if you wanna learn more about Lead Podcasting, it's leadpodcasting.com and you can find the company on all social platforms. If you wanna learn more about me, you could go to amandacapito.com or check me out on LinkedIn and happy to connect with you further. I also have both of my books. I have to say them, Let's Talk Podcasting and Let's Talk Podcasting for Kids and both of those have their own websites. So letstalkpodcasting.com and letstalkpodcastingforkids.com. I own a lot of domains as you could tell.
Kyle James (26:43.628)
Awesome.
Kyle James (26:56.046)
Love it. Thank you, Amanda. It's great having you on. It's solid conversation. I know everyone who's listening in had a probably wonderful, good time. Maybe laughed a little bit too. I hope so. I hope you laughed because we love having you on. But it's great having you the show. Looking forward to potentially having you on the next one too. Awesome. And thanks again for everybody for listening. Remember, if you're looking to implement AI into your business today, please, please, please, please don't try and do it yourself. The time and stress that AI could cause, it may not be worth it.
Amanda Cupido (27:05.815)
Thank you.
Sounds good, thanks Kyle.
Kyle James (27:23.182)
schedule a call with GPT Trainer and let them build out and manage your AI for you. Once again, that's gpt-trainer.com. Have a great rest of your day everybody. Looking forward to seeing everyone on the next episode of AI Chronicles.
