Episode Transcript
Kyle James (00:01.336)
Hey, welcome to the AI Chronicles podcast. I'm your host, Kyle James. And today we'll be talking about how a digital marketing and tech agency called Get Visible is using AI inside of their own business. And we'll share the exact steps that you can take in order to implement AI for yourself. Now, before we dive into that, listen closely. Are you looking to implement AI inside of your own company or maybe just struggling to get your AI to stop hallucinating? Speak to GPT Trainer.
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Jason Ciment (00:51.936)
you
Kyle James (00:58.346)
Once again, that's gpt-trainer.com. Today you have me on the show, Jason Cement, formerly a CPA and lawyer, is the co-founder of Get Visible, a 20-person digital marketing and technology development agency that was established back in 2005. The agency positions local and national clients as industry front runners on search engines and social media channels. Excited to have Jason in the show today. Hey, welcome in, Jason. How are you?
Jason Ciment (01:28.374)
glad we're taping
Kyle James (01:31.694)
You like the commercial? I'm sure there's some better AI generated voiceovers that you can get besides my voice. Yeah, we do, we do, we do. So man, it's great. It's great hanging out with Jason. So tell everybody a little bit, like how did it get visible come to be? And maybe a little bit backstory because CPA, lawyer, that's like really interesting backstory, or back into what you're doing now. So share a little bit more.
Jason Ciment (01:40.63)
We want genuine things when it comes to people.
Jason Ciment (01:57.578)
How do you cause your parents the most frustration for working hard to put you through law school and working as an accountant, right? So I could say I'm very good at taking a test to pass. And what happened is I finished law school, passed the bar, standing in the courtroom. I just got married a year before and I felt like this need to go do something entrepreneurial.
before getting a job because we were living in New York, we knew we were gonna move to LA and I figured I would have an adventure, try something. I could always go back and get a master's degree in tax. I was gonna be in the state attorney and I ended up starting. A friend called me and said, hey, there's this thing called the intent. This is back in 95. And he said, why don't you try building a website and see what's out there? So I actually built a website, I think in 96 and...
got funded a few years later in a business, built an e-commerce business, bought a software company along the way, moved to LA, was making some money, and did that for a number of years. And then all of a sudden, it's like 2005, and I get a call from one of my old employees who had put himself through college working for me. And he says, hey, I think we should start an agency.
You know how to network with people. You have good credentials. I know how to do pay-per-click ads. Guy was so nifty. He was buying ads on Gucci watches with funny Greek characters before they outlawed it. So he said, why don't you bring in the business? I'll do the work. So at night we would talk. We wouldn't talk during the day because we both had our jobs. Or me, my business, he had a job. And then after a year,
I've brought in enough clients that he could quit his job. And now we're up to, I think we just hired two employees in the last week. So we're up to, think, 21 people. And every two years we had a jump in the business. So we started purely SEO, then we had websites, like WordPress websites. Then I joined an organization called Provisors, which helped me expand my Rolodex tremendously.
Jason Ciment (04:18.668)
And just keep in mind that I'm still a geek at heart. had the first IBM computer when I was 13 and had my bar mitzvah. That was one of the things I got. I was building spreadsheets in VisiCalc before Microsoft Excel existed. So I don't code anymore so much, but now you vibe code, right? You don't need to know how to code, but I understand what's going on. So ultimately over 20 years, we hired employees and we grew our footprint.
in terms of services. So now we have like five main services and it's all organic. It's our retention rates are half our clients are from before COVID. So it's very high. Even our employees, our average employees think it's five years. So we're, we call ourselves the Toyota Avalon. That was my first car. It lasted like 17 years, but it had the same engine as the Lexus. So you get all the power, you just don't have to pay for it.
Kyle James (05:14.765)
Mm-mm.
Jason Ciment (05:15.452)
sort of like what we we price we're definitely I don't like the word cheaper but we're we are cheaper than a lot of our peers part of that is I think it's competitive it's competitive number one but number two we run a lean shop half our staff is overseas half is in America so we sort of pair people up with someone that with the same level of experience overseas we're just paying less money and now with AI
Kyle James (05:41.997)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Ciment (05:44.746)
That gives us even more leverage to do things on clients.
Kyle James (05:46.84)
For sure. So, so now I'm like, want to, I want to shift around here because like you CPA lawyer and then kind of stepped away pretty, pretty quickly from that, moved out to LA with the family. And then you had a friend reach out and the friend was like, Hey, you know, let's do, let's do an agency together. But, you scale that agency. I mean, the first year you got to a point where you quit your day job and do this full time. How did you get there so fast?
Jason Ciment (06:02.348)
Yeah.
Jason Ciment (06:14.23)
Yeah.
Jason Ciment (06:18.026)
networking. Maybe I didn't make a lot of money when I quit. No, honestly, it's it's all relationship building. My life is very much integrated. This whole work life balance for me means they're all connected. There's no bifurcation except for Friday night and Saturday when it's Shabbat not working. Okay, I'm off the clock, but I'm really I don't have a choice anymore. But ultimately,
Kyle James (06:18.253)
I mean, most people could take like five years, you know what mean? Like even longer.
Kyle James (06:42.593)
Yeah.
Jason Ciment (06:46.956)
I have relationships globally with people, locally, whatever, and I think at the end of the day, you decide to pull the trigger on something, either because you really need it, doesn't matter who's providing it, it's just that first person who you find to solve a problem. But if you have more time to deliberate, it's someone that you trust that can deliver the goods. And we seem to be trustworthy.
Right. think so. And so we're doing it a long time and we don't keep every client. don't win every battle that we're doing, but we have more wins than losses. And at the very beginning, it was also, it's 20 years ago that it wasn't as competitive then as it is today. And we're trying not to super specialize because then you sort of get stuck in a bucket, but we're also trying not to be too broad.
Kyle James (07:43.127)
Hmm.
Jason Ciment (07:45.682)
So we try to find the balance, really it's about the relationship. It's literally, can you do a good job? And do the people who you do the work for feel an appreciation to say, first I want to brag about what you did. And two, they want to say to their friends who trust them, let me go help. Let me give you a resource. That's going to be good for you.
Kyle James (07:46.017)
to balance there.
Kyle James (08:06.933)
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it's really cool. I like the, the approach to like, yeah, like the balance of like not, too niche down, but then also not too broad. so now you've been a kind of really a techie or you say like a nerd geek or whatever for first IBM computer. That's yeah, I think you're the first person I know that's, don't know. Yeah. So, but, but you, so you're, you're into the tech, right. And I would say AI introduces itself.
Jason Ciment (08:26.046)
I'm older than I look. Let me put it to you.
Kyle James (08:34.241)
you know, well before chat, routine, everything else, but like you're starting to use AI over at Get Visible. Like why did you decide to start using AI in the first place within the business? And then what challenges like were you trying to solve with it?
Jason Ciment (08:48.01)
Okay. So at the very beginning, when AI came out, December came out, I think January, I called my partner and said, this is happening. He was not happy about it. And he didn't feel, he felt that the quality of the content that would be generated would not be good enough. And we've seen so many cycles on Google. That's before we were talking about AI generated results and, and people bypassing Google to go to channels.
Kyle James (08:59.117)
Why wasn't he happy?
Kyle James (09:07.117)
Mm.
Jason Ciment (09:17.484)
And so before, what they call it, GEO or AEO, whatever term you want to use. We call it DEO. discovery experience optimization, because now you've got to be discovered on multiple channels. So he was concerned that if we leveraged too much the AI content, it would give our clients low quality scores, and Google would eventually catch up, which is what happened. They've had a number of updates. If you put on crap content, you're going to get things for it. So we tried to avoid it.
Kyle James (09:20.183)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle James (09:28.524)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle James (09:46.454)
Hmm.
Jason Ciment (09:47.336)
I even built a script called Sentiscan, which measures the sentiment. That's an example of AI. I built our own custom GPT that will evaluate content to measure its AI signals. So if you use AI, I'm not against that, but it better be good enough that it fools the human and the whatever software so that it doesn't appear as if AI generated it. That's the key. So we built a tool that
Kyle James (10:12.781)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Ciment (10:16.156)
helps our writers discover patterns that they're following that look like AI. So that's one thing we built with AI. just from the beginning of when ChatGPT came out, it was obvious that the route was going to evolve and it's still evolving into agentic AI and other things that could do multi-steps, run while you're sleeping. So we already were in the mindset of having people working overnight because we have some
plays overseas, so why not have software work when, not replace, but supplement things that you're doing or do things much quicker. So we're using AI. The one way that AI has been very helpful is to help clients that are not tech savvy to understand their ideal client persona. So we have an interactive survey that helps the client
Kyle James (11:05.837)
Tell me more about that though, because I know that's a big one within that.
Jason Ciment (11:14.412)
hone in on who they're trying to sell to. It doesn't matter what they're selling. It doesn't, it matters who they're selling to because they have to make decisions, but it helps articulate the value proposition, who it's being made to, and do a deep dive to the point where the software can then create blog topics, website content, hierarchy, framework, site map, all that kind of stuff.
Kyle James (11:41.623)
you
Jason Ciment (11:41.63)
In an hour, I can do something that would have taken a week, right?
Kyle James (11:45.4)
So is that what typically like when someone like signs up right there, that's, that's part of like the thing get visible. They can have access to. Cause I think I know like ICP and figure out your ideal customer profile is that that can be at all day, all year nonstop changing. like, how does it break down? I guess like step by step on when someone's
Jason Ciment (12:06.774)
Well, the first thing we're doing is we're figuring out what it is we're going to sell and who we're selling it to beyond the price point. then try to dive, not try to achieve a deep dive into understanding the pain points of each audience they're targeting. Once you know why somebody is in pain, I say pain, I don't mean physical, but why they need whatever it is you're selling. The need might be, I want to sleep better. I want a better sex life. I want to look better, whatever they are.
Or I just want someone to solve this legal problem. Whatever it is, once you know the motivations, now you can preempt them by saying, hey, I have the answers to those motivations. I got the solutions. I've got case studies, I use cases, have testimonials. So you build an entire sales package where the person ultimately feels like you know and understand what's going on in my head even better than I understand it. Right? So using AI to...
Kyle James (13:01.687)
Hmm.
Jason Ciment (13:05.452)
Because remember, AI, if you use it properly, it is the sum total of all human knowledge. Right? It's supposed to be. So if you're, it certainly knows more than me and you together in a classroom full of people. It's got, if you prompt it properly and tell it that you're an expert in whatever discipline you're doing, it has enough resources to mimic what that looks like and approximate the experience. And then...
Kyle James (13:11.243)
Hmm. Wow. That's really well said.
Jason Ciment (13:33.844)
It still hallucinates. I crashed ChatGPT once. I literally crashed it. It said I can't go further. So you do have problems with that, but, that's, and that's only one approach is just the, the, the ICP ChatGPT stuff or Claude. doesn't matter which engine you're using, but then you have all the new things that are coming, which are agentic AI and creating software. created, I created something called Milo. It stands for manage your links online. It's replaces.
Kyle James (13:37.207)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Kyle James (13:51.767)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Ciment (14:02.538)
the alt D, the bookmark on the browser. So if you're browsing, I'll show, could show you, you want to see something?
Kyle James (14:08.353)
Yeah, I do. Yeah. So for those who are listening, if you're audio only, probably will see this, but maybe go to Jason Cement's profile on LinkedIn or website. might be able to find that. Go ahead, Jason. Share it away.
Jason Ciment (14:20.032)
Yeah, share screen right now. Yeah, we're on our screen right here. So if I go right here to, let's say I'm on this company, Coamplify, and I want to save the screen. You see it right now? Okay. So if I just go to Milo and I want to add it, I'll just click add. I can auto fill the information. Here it is. Coamplify. I can assign notes, tags. I can put it in the category. I'll put it into, projects, I'd say.
Kyle James (14:31.287)
Yeah.
Jason Ciment (14:50.252)
I want general, I hit it. It's now added. It's in there. Yeah, for anybody. Yeah, and it's so, I'll stop sharing. It's, but I built that with three different AI tools to build that because I don't understand what I wanted to build. So I did that. Then I had to figure out how to code it. And then I had to figure out it's going to look.
Kyle James (14:55.213)
Interesting. So it's kind of like a, professional bookmark for as you're searching the web, you can.
Okay, very cool.
Kyle James (15:14.177)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle James (15:19.605)
Yeah, that's really cool. now you've got a lot, you it seems like a lot of the things that we know working with lot of clients is like you start internally for yourself and then at some point trans transforming it over to where your clients can use it or really kind of work side by side with you and your team to make this, guess, a little bit more efficient process. What have you been, what have you been seeing so far as far as results go? Like since, you know,
start implementing AI and maybe some of your clients, what types of results have they been seeing?
Jason Ciment (15:50.764)
Well, they're showing up on the chat channels. We have one client, if you type in, think, CEO Coach, he shows up in the Google AI results. He shows up, I think, on ChatGPT. We have another client. He's an engineering firm. He wrote me a letter a month ago. He said he had, I think, 15 leads in the previous month from, and he's very specific, like for medical devices.
Kyle James (16:18.198)
Mm-hmm.
Jason Ciment (16:18.634)
And he said he was the number one listing on ChatGPT.
Kyle James (16:22.385)
So how did you get him there? Like the CEO coach you mentioned, how did you get him onto the... Because I think there's a lot of people out there who are like, hey, I'm on Google top page, but I'm not on these large language models. How'd you get him there?
Jason Ciment (16:37.292)
that secret sauce stuff.
Kyle James (16:39.917)
That's your nostalgia, that's what keeps the customers coming in.
Jason Ciment (16:44.716)
What I could say is like this, mean, we don't have enough time to go through all the details. mean, my partner spent four days at a secret conference lab two weeks ago, learning techniques and sharing techniques with other people. And I watched one video for two hours and it was over my head. I mean, I understood it, but I didn't know 90 % of what he was talking about beforehand. The things you do for LLM are different than you do for SEO purposes.
So you have to re-engineer your content. I mean, the easiest thing that people will tell you is you need to have question and answer type content as opposed to informational. It has to be more of a dialogue. There's, you need resources, citations. You need people to, more than backlinks, it's authority. You have to be perceived as the authority figure. And it doesn't just come from backlinks.
So it's just a different approach. And then obviously we learned certain things that are, we'll call them hacks to the system. Not different than what you do at SEO. Right.
Kyle James (17:53.838)
Yeah, for sure. And what would you say, like we start kind of wrapping, getting closer to the conversation here, Jason, like what are some of those kind of upcoming AI initiatives for Get Visible? And like, do you see it, know, especially as it's changing, you where do see it playing the biggest role in your operations next?
Jason Ciment (18:11.774)
I think the automation of multiple steps. Like for example, I made a decision internally to do something that I started five years ago. So I have a unique take on book reviews. So I read a lot of books because I don't sleep much and can't use the computer and Shabbat. So I read if I'm not in synagogue or eating food, I'm reading. So I write about books and food.
Kyle James (18:15.18)
Hmm.
Kyle James (18:26.893)
Mm-hmm.
Kyle James (18:34.295)
Yeah.
Jason Ciment (18:39.304)
And the books are not about food, but there's food in the book. And I integrate that into our review. It's something unique. Nobody else does it. I could, and I decided I need to build up my influencer status. So AI will be extremely helpful on something just fundamentally simple, which is posting to multiple channels in one shot. So I don't have to log into each channel. That's very rudimentary. That's basic. That's been around for years, but it gets better with AI.
because it could customize the posting for each channel. It could create the images, which used to take me a long time. Now I can create an image for the post that's appropriate to each channel using AI, and I can sort of invent the image that I want. I used to sit there in my kitchen and I would take foods and put them on a book cover and make, that was just, there was no alternative. Now I don't have to do any of that. It's all there. So like if you look at my Instagram, which is my name, Jason Ciment, you'll see.
some recent reviews and the images are really good. And I don't have to sit there in the kitchen putting two foods together. So AI can do that. AI can sequence events now like with Claude code or even AI assistant with a chat GPT perplexity. can actually download now on your own computer and run it locally. There's a lot of things that you can do that are just next level that
Kyle James (19:41.485)
Hmm.
Jason Ciment (20:04.032)
I've learned some of that vibe coding. could create software right on your own. If you have the understanding of how to do it, it's not just that the computer will do it. need to have critical thinking capability. So these things are all happening. I am trying to avoid replacing anybody. I just want to enhance what we do for the clients.
Kyle James (20:26.221)
Yeah, for sure. That's really cool. I like really giving like the full flexibility here, especially if you can build your own app. You know, really kind of their own software applications, right? Just taking those odd really the multiple steps that you currently do and go. How do I? How do I automate this? And better yet, I can use AI to do it all the more power, right? More time so and as we wrap up Jason man, where can people go to learn a little bit more about you that you'd recommend them check out and then maybe a little bit more about get visible as well?
Jason Ciment (20:45.044)
Yeah, yeah, right.
Jason Ciment (20:56.338)
Obviously, getvisible.com, the QR code I think goes to our website. There's only one Jason Cement in the world as far as I know. So if you just type it in, you'll find me. I'm like LifeLock, all my stuff is out there. There's not much to take, we've already been robbed. In the middle of the day, I went to a meeting, came home and someone broke our back door and broke in our house. So that just changes the whole perspective on stuff. I don't have stuff that's... I'm okay.
Kyle James (21:26.029)
You're like, take it. It's fine. Take it. Sometimes like my car's unlocked. I'm like, there's nothing valuable in there. Please. I got a really nice book up here I'm reading. Please don't take that. But you can take like any.
Jason Ciment (21:26.085)
I'm easy to find. Take it.
Jason Ciment (21:35.798)
But do not touch the flamingo, that's all I can say.
Jason Ciment (21:45.054)
Iker chip my flamingo, there you go.
Kyle James (21:46.861)
Yeah, everything's chipped if you do I Love it. Well, hey Jason's great. How do you know show man? Appreciate your perspective today? I know everyone listening in probably really enjoyed hearing here in the conversation today So again, thank you so much to be on a I Chronicle show
Jason Ciment (22:01.206)
Good to be honest.
Kyle James (22:02.592)
Awesome. And thanks again, everybody for listening in. Remember, if you're looking to implement AI into your business today, please don't try and do it yourself. The time and stress that the AI could cause, it may not be worth it. So schedule a call with GPT Trainer and let them build out manager AI for you. Once again, that's gpt-trainer.com. Signing off for now. Have a great rest of day, everyone. Looking forward to seeing everyone on the next episode of AI Chronicles.
