Megan McIntosh: The Buzz About Beneficial Insects in Your Garden

Kyle James (00:00) Hey, welcome to building the loyalty loop podcast. This is your host, Kyle James. Today we're to be discussing how a hobby gardeners company called Rootsum, also formerly known as BioGrowee was able to scale its business by offering ways to enhance your garden the natural way. If you're a hobby gardener and you need to listen closely, have you found that your AI agent is hallucinating or just mishandling basic conversations? Speak to GPD trainer. GPD trainer fully manages your AI agent for you. eliminating hallucinations for good while drastically improving your AI agents response. Go to gpttrainer.com to learn more. So for our guests today on the show, I have Megan McIntosh with me, who is the all arounder for Rootsome, also known as BioGrowey, a company based in Belgium that specializes in helping people make their gardens more biodiverse by offering effective alternatives to poison. Hey Megan, welcome to the show. Glad to have you on. Megan McIntosh (00:58) Hi, thank you so much. It's really nice to be here. What an intro. Kyle James (01:01) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I appreciate it. so tell me like, tell me a little bit more about Rootsum or also, I guess y'all changed your name back in January. So BioGrowey is what it used to be called, but tell me some of like the background, the history about how it all got started with Rootsum. Megan McIntosh (01:18) The company started back in 1992, founded by the current manager's mother. And she had a gardening center that she started that was fully organic at the time. And that was a new thing. That wasn't really something that people were doing. These days, everybody talks about organic this, organic that. It's a total buzzword. But back then, it was something almost unknown, especially for a garden center to be completely organic. And a big part of that was that she used alternatives for traditional pesticides to treat problems in the garden. So she was using beneficial insects, nematodes, living creatures that actually should be in your garden that keep things in check and so you don't have problems. And so she was selling a lot of beneficial insects and nematodes. And then that ended up taking over more of the business. The shop went fully online as a beneficial biological control business. I think about eight to 10 years ago, slightly before my time. And since then, we've been selling core business is beneficial insects, nematodes, living products, basically. Kyle James (02:14) Mm-hmm. Yeah. So pretty much like, you know, the, the pesticide, that's such a big, such a big deal nowadays. There's so many industries that are spraying pesticides and so for you to offer, you know, these essentially like these bugs, right. That come in and they naturally kill off the, I guess the bad bugs, right? Is that how it works or. Megan McIntosh (02:40) Yeah, well, we don't really like to think of things in terms of good bugs and bad bugs, even though that's like a really accessible narrative. It's not really the right one the way we see it, because every bug is just a bug. And if you have too many of one bug and not enough of another, then you might have a problem in your garden. So what we do is we help people get those problems in check by bringing back balance, restoring the biodiversity that might have Kyle James (02:51) Mm-hmm. Megan McIntosh (03:05) been taken away by spraying pesticides throughout the years, killing off the soil life with like too much chemical fertilizers, things like that. Kyle James (03:14) Yeah, absolutely. And for you, mean, because your title is the all rounder, right? So walk me through, like, how did you get into this? How did you get into this industry? Like, how was it intentional? Were you expecting to be here? Did you kind of stumble upon it? Like, give me some of your, some of your background. Megan McIntosh (03:30) My background is actually in functional analysis and IT. So I started off as a functional analyst and then I was doing a lot of B2B back office software, custom software development. So very interesting in that regard, but I wanted something that was a little bit more dynamic in terms of industry. And I knew I liked web shops and e-commerce. So I already knew I wanted to go in that direction. And I happened upon this company. through somebody I knew, so that's all you know. And then I started work, yeah, yeah, almost four years. And I started off packing orders in the warehouse and doing customer service. And then as the company grew, we were able to hire more people. And I've been able to move more into the technical side of things, technical marketing, yeah, not just technical marketing, but email automations and... Kyle James (03:58) and now you've been there for a couple years now, right? Megan McIntosh (04:18) maintaining the website and things like that. So I really do whatever needs to be done. It's just that now I get to do more of those things instead of other things. Kyle James (04:26) Yeah, that's great. And talking a little bit about, you cause you've got customers all across like Germany, France, Belgium, and a few others. Like what are some of the, mean, especially starting off back in the nineties where it's like, just a local gardener decided to start selling things and then now growing it to multiple different countries. Like what are some of the feedback that you feel like the customer started giving, um, as they started getting some of these, these different bugs for their gardens. Megan McIntosh (04:56) I think a lot of it is a, is a mindset shift mindset shift. That's a hard thing to say. ⁓ because it's not like you're exchanging, a bottle of poison for a package of bugs. Like it's not a one-on-one trade. so you have to really teach people how the ecosystems work in order to get them on board with you. Because if they just. Kyle James (05:02) Thank Megan McIntosh (05:19) buy bugs instead of poison one time and they don't have the effect that they expected, then they're not gonna buy again. So a lot of our job is educating people on how these things actually go about doing their work. Kyle James (05:23) Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I think like looking, because I mean, at least I know like in America, like there's the pesticides, it's a money saving factor, right? You spray, you spray the stuff, it kills off anything and everything. But on the downside is it kind of, like you mentioned it, poisons. Like what are some of those harmful effects that you see some of those pesticides causing to not just the plants, but even maybe people? Megan McIntosh (05:57) Well, I think there's a lot that we just don't see like there's more a lack of a lack of insects Maybe 20 years ago I'm old enough to know but 20 years ago you might have heard a lot more buzzing and zooming around and in the yard you might get a lot more a lot more dead bugs on your windshield and Than you do now Yeah, I don't know how to... Kyle James (06:19) Yeah, you're good. You're good. it's definitely like, and I guess like for, I'm just looking at some of the people out there who were like, Hey, I got a little small garden. What do I, what's my next step? Right? Like what would you suggest to them? Like as they're building out their gardens, right? Like what, and trying to stay away from these pesticides and more towards like, what would you recommend that like some of those first steps they can take? Megan McIntosh (06:41) Well, it's actually really easy because the first step is just stop using pesticides. So it's not something that you have to do, it's just something you don't do instead of something to do. And if you do have a problem in the garden, for instance, if you have like too many aphids and then your rose bush is dying because it's overloaded with aphids, instead of going for a spray, then use ladybugs because ladybugs are the natural enemy of aphids and they Kyle James (06:46) Hmm. Megan McIntosh (07:06) love nothing more than to eat aphids all day and all, yeah, for all time. Kyle James (07:11) So like if you're like, typically like I'm thinking about like a ladybug, like my wife likes to grow plants. She's got like tomatoes and stuff outside strawberries and a few other mint and things like that. Like when you order like a ladybug or like any other bug that's going to help with your garden, like I'm almost thinking of like a pet like you you let go of the ladybug like how do know my ladybug is gonna come back like hey ladybug I paid for you and you flew off like how do you know like how many ladybugs you have to order and like how do know they are they gonna stay where they are when they first get let out like how does that work Megan McIntosh (07:27) You That's actually, those are great questions because those are things that everybody wonders and everybody has the same questions. For like how many bugs that you should use, like the dosage and things like that, we do try to write that out on our website as specifically as possible. The problem is that it's very context specific. So if you have just one plant and you have a lot of aphids, it might be a different treatment scenario than if you have a tree that's full of aphids because for Like a rose bush will recommend ladybugs because you just need a few. And then for a big tree will recommend lacewings because they also eat aphids, but you'll need a lot more. And as for how you know if they're going to stay and things like that, for ladybugs, it's actually the larvae are much more effective at eating aphids than the adults are. The larvae, they need to eat a lot more. So, and they'll also stick around a lot more. because they can't fly. ⁓ So ladybug larvae are the way to go. Kyle James (08:31) Yeah, so you mentioned you mentioned the aphids like I'm again I probably got a beginner mindset here I know what a ladybug is but like an aphid like what what are what are some of those like top like thing bugs I should know Megan McIntosh (08:42) Yeah, the top bugs you should know. I would say for this time of year, it's definitely aphids. That's the thing that everybody's starting to see. It's a huge problem in this part of the world. I'm not sure if it is in your neck of the woods, but over here in Belgium, slugs are awful. Slugs are a huge problem. And so for those, have nematodes that attack the slugs and parasitize them and kill them off, ⁓ which is kind of a... Kyle James (09:07) cool. Megan McIntosh (09:09) horrible way to go, but yeah. And then spider mites are also a big one, definitely in the vegetable garden in the summer. Cucumbers, tomatoes, eggplants, they'll have issues with spider mites. guess strawberries also. And then thrips is another big one. Kyle James (09:11) I mean, that or spray I guess, right? And that's not... Mm-hmm. Megan McIntosh (09:30) And thrips you will also see outside in the vegetable garden or in the ornamental garden, but you'll also see them a lot indoors on houseplants. Thrips are a big problem. Kyle James (09:39) Gotcha. So you can deploy these like, you know, almost like bugs versus bugs. kind of see this. So instead of like spraying the pesticides, you say, okay, hey, look, these are some of the problem bugs, not saying they're bad bugs, but the problem bugs we're having. So therefore let's deploy these lady bugs or, know, different types of, I'm not against good bugs. I actually say that will take out those that we don't have to have the pesticides that just wipe everything clean. Is that what? Okay. That's great. Megan McIntosh (09:44) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yes. That's actually step one of our mission is don't use pesticides and if you have a problem then use an alternative for a pesticide and often that's a living bug but it could just as easily be a piece of netting like insect netting to have a physical barrier between caterpillars and cabbage plants for example. So it doesn't always have to be a living product but just something that is not poison. Kyle James (10:31) Yeah. Okay. I got a really silly question here and it is my mind's curious. So for people who are out there who have, you know, the garden that they're, building up there, you've got a pretty good size right now, but maybe you have some of those who are like, Hey, I've got a garden, it's, it's actually indoors. Can you deploy a lady bug in indoor or like these bugs indoors and how does that even work? Megan McIntosh (10:33) So. Yeah, yeah, this is another great question. Yeah, that's fun. It's very, very much so. So for indoors, we recommend ladybug larvae, but actually not that often. For indoor plants, houseplants, setups that are not outdoors, we'll usually recommend lacewing larvae instead of ladybugs. Actually, we have a lot of products that are that are great for indoors. We have little sachets of predatory mites and it's with like a, I don't know what to call it in English. It's like a, a breed batch. I don't know what the word is, but so it's like young predatory mites, eggs, and they're all in different stages of their life cycle, which means that you'll have Kyle James (11:27) Okay, okay. Megan McIntosh (11:37) protection in your plants for a very long time because they crawl out of the little baggies when they're ready to ⁓ and so you'll have mites in your Kyle James (11:42) Okay, and it like does it do they get did they get all over that like I mean I'm like I'm afraid like I'm like sleeping our bedroom and all of sudden like a Larva comes crawling up to me like no no no go back to your plant like is that or they typically stay close to those those plants Okay Megan McIntosh (11:54) They'll stay in the plant. They'll stay in the plants. They can't... They'll only go where they have their food. ⁓ But also, even if they were crawling on you, wouldn't know it. They're so small. Yeah. Kyle James (12:03) It's like the plants that are food essentially. Really? wow. Okay. So now you just call her. No, that's great. That's cool. So I noticed checking out some of the content on website. There's this, this, this like step-by-step plan. I think you mentioned like step one, like walk me through what is, what is this step-by-step plan and like, how exactly does it help some of these gardeners out there who trying to get, get, get their garden up and running. Megan McIntosh (12:29) Yes, we try to make it as easy as possible, even though it's kind of complex. ⁓ So the first step, like we already said, is just don't use pesticides, don't use poison. The second step is actually bring your soil to life, improve the soil life. And one of the things that people often do unknowingly, they think it's great. I also did it for years before I learned more about gardening and ecosystems was using a lot of chemical fertilizers because you you want your plants to grow and Kyle James (12:34) Mm-hmm. Megan McIntosh (12:55) be big and beautiful and get lots of blooms and vegetables. But actually, chemicals is also one of those words that gets thrown around and people are like, no, chemicals, everything is chemicals, of course, everything is chemicals. But if you have overdoses of the chemicals that are in fertilizers, it actually kills off the beneficial soil life, such as the natural funguses, bacteria, nematodes. Kyle James (12:56) Hmm. Wow. ⁓ Megan McIntosh (13:16) protests, everything that just naturally should be in soil will just die off. Kyle James (13:21) It's almost like if you're using those, like those chemical soil, it's kind of forcing you to use the pesticides because it like, like it's a double edged sword where like, if you don't get, if you get this, then you have to get this versus if you get the natural soil, is that correct? Or. Uh-huh. Megan McIntosh (13:29) It's a vicious cycle. It really is. Yeah. Yeah, you see it a lot with lawns, with grass people, they'll fertilize and then their grass, it's really green, it's bright green, it's beautiful. And then they can maintain it and it looks wonderful. But then they get problems because they get too many grubs that move in because the grubs, want to eat the delicious roots of the very healthy grass. And then you have too many grubs and your grass starts dying. And so then you start Kyle James (14:00) Mm-hmm. Megan McIntosh (14:04) fertilizing more because you want your grass to be better and it's that it really that's how the the whole problem can can grow. Kyle James (14:11) So that soil, you have one, be careful step two is like, be careful of the soil. Make sure you're not putting chemically chemical soil, I guess you could say. And that's something that you're, know, roots some has available for people to, or is that what's right? They recommend. Hmm. Okay. Megan McIntosh (14:22) Well, the thing is, we don't need to sell anything for that. There are a few products in our assortment that help you improve your soil life, but the most important things you can do for your soil life is leave your soil alone. Don't ⁓ till. Tilling is actually really bad because then you're exposing layers of your soil that are underneath with anaerobic life to oxygen, and so they also die. Kyle James (14:37) Wow. Megan McIntosh (14:48) And then you're also flipping over the aerobic soil life into a deeper layer where they also die off. So the best thing to do is leave it alone. don't know if you've ever heard of no dig gardening? ⁓ So that's actually the best thing you can do. Kyle James (14:59) ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. Yeah. What is that? Like, elaborate, though, just for those who don't know what that means. Megan McIntosh (15:05) I actually don't know all the ins and outs of noted gardening myself. I just know that it's the best thing you can do for your soil life, but you can lay down cardboard on top of where you want to start gardening and then build up a layer on top of that. But I'm definitely not the expert on noted gardening. But yeah. Three, just three. Yeah. The last step is to Kyle James (15:08) Sure. Okay. Huh, interesting. Yeah, yeah, no, that's great. It's definitely interesting. OK, so that was step two. How many steps are there? Step two is that? And then three. OK, so what's the last for step three on the? Megan McIntosh (15:32) plant your garden to be biodiverse with as many native plants as you can. And if the plants aren't native, then make sure that they're useful for the local ecosystem. So not every plant has to be a native plant, but don't plant things that are invasive. Don't do monoculture where you only have one thing. Try to vary your plantings. Create layers of plantings where you have an herbaceous underlayer. Then you need like bushes and a second layer there and then have a tree layer with canopies. So that's also very important for biodiversity so that you can support different types of life such as birds and the trees. Kyle James (16:05) Yeah, you mentioned evasive. What are some like maybe ones that you definitely want to stay away from? I know it probably varies between different areas, but what are some of the most popular ones to avoid? Megan McIntosh (16:11) ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ invasive around here would be like... I don't know. It's... this is a really controversial one because it's actually a super useful plant, but butterfly bush. That's one... it's wonderful for insects, but it takes over and it's not native to here. So that's one to watch out for. I'm not saying, it's bad, don't plant it here. But that would be one that comes to mind. Kyle James (16:34) Sure. Yeah, like we have like for us like a bamboo is a big one. Like bamboo just grows like crazy. So like, but people, you know, it grows fast and you can use it for different things, but it's just kind of obnoxious, right? Megan McIntosh (16:42) Yeah. Yeah. Kyle James (16:50) I guess like if you can control it, if it's evasive and people have it in their gardens, like if you can control it, does that make it a little bit better? Megan McIntosh (16:50) Yeah. Yeah, think, I mean, we say sustainability as if it's only applying to, you know, things, but also practices. So if you can maintain your garden sustainably, that's also, it has to be sustainable for you. Otherwise, it's also not good. Kyle James (17:13) Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So obviously let's talk a little bit, a little shift gears here. you know, you've, you know, we've mentioned that you've used a little bit of AI. on your side. And it's been helpful. I guess, walk me through, what have you been doing or using AI for and how has it been impacting Rootsum and the business flow? Megan McIntosh (17:37) I love this question. I treat AI like my second brain, and I give it things to do for me that I don't have time for. and that's not saying I don't let it do, very much creative work for me, in terms of like marketing things or, or content or things like that, but I use it more for the technical things that I don't know how to do, but I know how I need to get them done. I am not a developer. Sure. ⁓ So yesterday I have an example of like a perfect use case. had, we're trying to get our mission out there. So like we're a very mission based brand, mission based company. And one of the things we want to do is get people to sign up for our, we have like a learning. Kyle James (18:04) Can you give an example of something you're using it for? Megan McIntosh (18:25) a year-long learning path, we call it. And you get an email every two weeks with tips for how to make your garden more biodiverse. And this is based on the type of garden that you have. So we have four different paths. have if you have a large or a rural garden, if you have a city garden, if you have just a balcony or a terrace, so you have potted plants. And also we have if you only have a lawn, like some people just have a lawn and they also want to make it more biodiverse and we want to help them. Kyle James (18:49) Mm-hmm. Megan McIntosh (18:52) So we wanted to add more calls to action to do this on our website our website You know, we have a CMS It's a custom theme, but there's only so much we can do but we also have you know Some nice widgets that we can add on different pages So I was trying to add more calls to action to sign up for this learning course, I guess we can call it But using the tools that we have in our toolbox, I couldn't really get it Working well because the calls to action were buried at the bottom of a page or they didn't look quite right in the middle of page and you know how you when you have a tool and it's just not quite right so I was like, okay, no, I'm gonna go to chat GPT with and I'm gonna See what I can find in our CSS and our and and come up with something so I used a large language model to help me I just pasted it like a portion of our global CSS and I was like Kyle James (19:17) Right. Mm-hmm. Megan McIntosh (19:43) helped me do exactly this and now I have beautifully formatted calls to action that I can just insert in the middle of any page that I want to. So beautifully styled, following exactly our style sheets and I didn't have to know how to code to do it. Kyle James (19:52) Nice. Nice. Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, that's that's great. So something you've mentioned right there that I, talking a little bit about Rootsome, you mentioned a year long, is it like a course or like just based on the micro learnings? Okay. So for people to learn more about micro learnings, they can just go to the, like, where, can they go to? Megan McIntosh (20:08) Yeah, we call it actually micro-learnings. Yeah. Actually, in English we offer, we have custom PDFs that you can download. So we don't have the year-long course available in English, but we do have these custom checklists that you can download on our website. If you go to rootsim.com and then you click on the mission section and you'll find it there. Kyle James (20:25) Okay. Awesome. Okay. Perfect. And I guess that ties in together with how they can learn about you. Megan, appreciate your time today learning a little bit more about Rootsome. Absolutely amazing. Megan McIntosh (20:36) Yeah. Kyle James (20:44) So we're going to wrap it up from here. Thanks for joining us and sharing more about how Rootsim has been making a huge impact for gardeners in Belgium, the Netherlands, France, and Germany. And I imagine even more in the future. And amazing. If you remember, if you are an AI or looking into AI and you're a hobby gardener and your AI agent is hallucinating, just mishandling basic conversations, go to gpt-trainer.com to learn more. on how we've helped our clients fine tune their AI agents. Thanks again for listening in. Hope you have a wonderful rest of your day, Megan. It was a pleasure. Looking forward to seeing you on the next episode of Building the Loyalty Loop. Megan McIntosh (21:26) Thank you.